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 Fox: The most hated (legal) character?

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SfaFreak

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PostSubject: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:38 pm

Why does everybody hate fox? He's one of my mains.


Last edited by sfafreak on Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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J Smooth

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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:23 pm

sfafreak wrote:
Why does everybody hate fox? He's one of my mains.
I didn't know there was a hate for fox, he's my best main so i dont share that hate. But those who don't like him probably just don't have an established technique against him for the character they use. Also he is most balanced and so statistically should win every match he plays
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SfaFreak

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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:39 pm

I just realized you thought I meant people don't like playing AGAINST Fox. I meant playing with Fox. Also, perhaps "hate" wasn't the best word. "Dislike" is a better one. In the old forum few liked Fox at all, and even fewer mained him. He doesn't have a set style, something which people like. There's probably no style that fox really, REALLY excels at. He's good at everything to a degree, so he's adaptable, something which I like.
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HAXage
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:26 am

well, we used to think Fox didn't really have any sort of niche to exploit and no matter what Cac says (re. countering Pep) i think this is still sort of true.

i've had quite a bit of use out of Fox lately, though... the metagame up here is very very fast and i've found a steamroller Fox playstyle to be pretty useful against a lot of Falcos when i don't feel like rolling Falco against them (compare [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - Cac was always pretty ahead of the curve in regards to character selection).

no matter how much i might value his stat spread, though, the fact is that Fox will never really be a hard counter to /anything/ (i think, anyway) and this is just by virtue of the stats he's got. i think that is why we used to not like Fox in the old days: we were just focused on finding what counters what and how all the characters shut each other down, rather than looking at the characters on their own.

these days, of course, we see every character played more or less [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in top-level games...
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SfaFreak

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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:09 am

Here's a situation where Fox is really useful. You are playing 4-player FFA. You placed last in the preivous round, so you get last character pick. One player chooses Falco, the next chooses Slippy to counter Falco, and the next player chooses who ever counters slippy. (Krystal, perhaps? I know falco counters her which would make a triple triangle) Now there is multiple styles of play. Who do you choose? My answer, Fox. His adaptability allows for competent fighting against all styles of play.
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:55 pm

sfafreak wrote:
I just realized you thought I meant people don't like playing AGAINST Fox. I meant playing with Fox. Also, perhaps "hate" wasn't the best word. "Dislike" is a better one. In the old forum few liked Fox at all, and even fewer mained him. He doesn't have a set style, something which people like. There's probably no style that fox really, REALLY excels at. He's good at everything to a degree, so he's adaptable, something which I like.
oh i see, well in that case its probably since there is no established technique when playing with him like other characters. Krystal has the double barrier, Peppy and Slippy have the chharge speed / jump combination, and Falco has running speed. But Fox doesn't really have any niches, this being because other characters have niches for compensation of a low stat area. Fox however, is completely balanced thus forcing players to think of their own strategy for every character. So those who don't enjoy playing fox may simply not like that he doesn't have what they consider an "edge" over other characters
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HAXage
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:31 pm

yeah, i might roll Fox in a situation like that one, but i think character selection is a lot different in FFAs than in duels, and that the real edge in FFAs is knowing how to play your character without having to think of counters, other players' picks, and such. i think this is why Yosh dominates in FFAs all the time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsZMLjPtbrs is a good example; everything was pretty stacked against him character-wise but he came out on top by playing it safe) more or less regardless of how fast everyone is playing: he has a high-DPS Pep, he knows how to play that style really well, and he has good FFA sensibility.

in duels, i'm finding the most common place for me to roll Fox is against fast Falc mains, like i said, where i might be outclassed speed-wise but i can live through two missiles. in a game where all the attention is on you, that's a pretty big deal. it's important to note that although Fox is commonly seen as the "average" character his health is actually higher than average - only Slip outclasses him when it comes to health, so it makes sense to play him like a bulkier character and use him to counter low-health glass cannon styles of play.

oh and yeah, Krys is a pretty solid counter to Slip (you can think of it like Krys represents boxer, Slip represents smasher, Falc represents techer). it's a neat little cycle although it isn't 100% reliable of course
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:42 pm

HAXage wrote:
oh and yeah, Krys is a pretty solid counter to Slip (you can think of it like Krys represents boxer, Slip represents smasher, Falc represents techer). it's a neat little cycle although it isn't 100% reliable of course

And yet the most terrifying character combos are the unusual ones. (My brother is a smasher Krystal, and I hope I never have to fight a smasher Falco.) Boxer Pep isn't very unusual, but I do think he's a very good boxer. I am scared to think of what a good techer Krystal could do, what with double-barrier-walling. Has anyone tried such blasphemy? I don't think I've ever heard of a techer that's not Falco (maybe Fox once or twice.)
The only reason I didn't include Fox is he can fit in anything fine, and Slippy I have actually no experience with. (0%) play usage, 2-3 times in 500+ matches.

I guess I don't hate Fox, but unless I were to actually have a community to play with and find my two mains (Techer Falc / Boxer Pep) inadequate would I potentially have use for him.
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:23 pm

oh yeah, i mean, nothing is ever too concrete in SFA. it's just that those characters kinda represent the styles by virtue of the stats they have, ya know?

anyway, i think Cac kinda played smasher Falc for a bit when he was transitioning out of the triangle. it was really friggin' hard to beat although i'd still rather play against his smasher Falc than whatever he's playing now, lol.

i can't really find any examples of anyone playing particularly techy with anything but Falc, though. Fox players just kinda... do whatever Fox does, and Krys is always approached with some kind of planning ahead because of the bars.

and yeah, F12, i think your position is the one that most people hold nowadays: there's a use for Fox, but it's difficult to really want to dedicate yourself to that character.
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:08 pm

I've found fox to be effective as a boxer with a slight amount of techer.
P.S.I am beginning to play Krys as techer/boxer combo similar to what falcoXII said and found it to be effective.
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:21 pm

FalcoXII wrote:
HAXage wrote:
oh and yeah, Krys is a pretty solid counter to Slip (you can think of it like Krys represents boxer, Slip represents smasher, Falc represents techer). it's a neat little cycle although it isn't 100% reliable of course

And yet the most terrifying character combos are the unusual ones. (My brother is a smasher Krystal, and I hope I never have to fight a smasher Falco.) Boxer Pep isn't very unusual, but I do think he's a very good boxer. I am scared to think of what a good techer Krystal could do, what with double-barrier-walling. Has anyone tried such blasphemy? I don't think I've ever heard of a techer that's not Falco (maybe Fox once or twice.)
The only reason I didn't include Fox is he can fit in anything fine, and Slippy I have actually no experience with. (0%) play usage, 2-3 times in 500+ matches.

I guess I don't hate Fox, but unless I were to actually have a community to play with and find my two mains (Techer Falc / Boxer Pep) inadequate would I potentially have use for him.
I've been walled by a techer Krystal, it is the equivalent to being walled by Wolf. I had 2 GG pick-ups vs her blaster and still lost that stock. The solution is awesome sniping, quick-scope, jump-scope, fall-scope, turn-scope and / or whatever other scopes there are. But most of these are hard to do against good players.
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:23 am

What character were you playing as, Jay?
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J Smooth

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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:21 pm

sfafreak wrote:
What character were you playing as, Jay?
I was playing Fox, I think it would've been easier to win with Falco since he's faster and therfore is harder to wall. I have a good idea of what each type of player is, but what exactly are the definition of a techer, boxer and smasher?
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:59 pm

A Techer is someone whose skill:power ratio is 9:1, 8:2, or 7:3. They tend to beat up on boxers and are usually beat by smashers. Smashers skill:power ratio is 1:9, 2:8, or 3:7. They tend to destroy techers, but their weakness is boxers. Boxers have a 6:4, 5:5, or 4:6 skill:power ratio. They feed on Smashers, but tend to lose to techers. This is known as the Triple Triangle Theory (TTT) and is a staple for character selection theory. You can read more about it in HAXage's guide on gameFAQ's.
P.S. my sig shows the TTT.
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J Smooth

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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:45 pm

sfafreak wrote:
A Techer is someone whose skill:power ratio is 9:1, 8:2, or 7:3. They tend to beat up on boxers and are usually beat by smashers. Smashers skill:power ratio is 1:9, 2:8, or 3:7. They tend to destroy techers, but their weakness is boxers. Boxers have a 6:4, 5:5, or 4:6 skill:power ratio. They feed on Smashers, but tend to lose to techers. This is known as the Triple Triangle Theory (TTT) and is a staple for character selection theory. You can read more about it in HAXage's guide on gameFAQ's.
P.S. my sig shows the TTT.
So which characters go best with what style in your opinion?
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:25 am

Jay Unstoppable wrote:
So which characters go best with what style in your opinion?
Traditionally, Falco is best as a techer, Krys as a boxer (I, however, play her as a techer-boxer combination.) and Slip as a smasher. As for Peppy and Fox, neither have extremely defined styles. I play Fox as a boxer with some techer tendency's. I Peppy play as a techer, although many play him as a boxer or (less commonly) a smasher.

P.S. Can you figure out what style I like to play? :P
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PostSubject: Re: Fox: The most hated (legal) character?   Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:53 am

Fox has always been my main character, I enjoy his jack of all trades abilites, being decently fast yet not having no health.
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