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 Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.

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SfaFreak

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PostSubject: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:18 am

The Demo for Smash Bros. 3DS has finally cone out!... and I can't play it yet because I have study group for Algebra. Sad  ANYways, anybody else downloading? I saw TLF started playing it, so tell us how it's going! If you're not too busy smashing. Razz


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STG

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:18 am

I dl'd it earlier today, but I'm not a huge fan of any of the characters that it gives you access too, so I don't think i'll play it any more till release

also they switched the trigger buttons so I kept grabbing when I was trying to roll -_-
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:56 pm

Villager OP. 'nuff said.

Ok, fine, I'll say more. First of all, dat recovery. It is in fact arguably the best recovery in the game, tied with R.O.B. and Meta Knight. And, with the ability to steal ledges in this game, the fact that the move doesn't attack is a non-issue in that regard. And he has a great meteor smash, which after going what looks like WAY too far off the stage, KO'ing his opponent with, he can then use his up-B to make his way back.

And I can't wait till custom controls, but not for the same reasons as STG . I keep having trouble with executing a smash attack, and I want to map them to the D-Pad. But, they put the taunts there instead.

Also, Pikachu got nerfed. I'm not sure why, other than the fact that his Down-B is worse. It seems harder to hit with, and it dosen't appear to do as much damage.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:45 am

Agreed, Villager is a beast off-stage. His tilts are a bit rubbish though, and his down-B is near useless even on a relatively tiny stage (Battlefield). It's not gonna do crap on a stage like Palutena's Temple. His side aerials are good, but hard to hit, and his side and down smashes are generally quite weak, at least compared to his pretty good up-smash. Overall I don't think he's quite OP near the level of Brawl Ice Climbers and Metaknight or Melee Fox, but definitely A-tier. (Of course this is just going by the demo, maybe everyone else in the game is super brilliant in comparison... except Falco. Apparently Falco got nerfed super hard and I'm sad)

I'm not upset about the Pikachu down-b nerf. It now has much less knockback than before and I think that's good, cause before it was the equivalent of W+M1 in TF2 - the noob's strategy. I still think Pikachu is a weak character, second weakest in the demo after Link, but his up-B doing more damage and hitstun is a nice buff.

My personal favourite from this demo is Mario, but I'd still put him second to Villager in terms of strength. Is it just me or did his up-B get seriously buffed in terms of height? He can meteor smash even easier now, it seems, even if you fast-fall to get the hit. His cape is a great weapon against all the demo's projectiles and his down-aerial is devastating.

I'm torn in my opinion of Megaman. He's not a terrible character as his aerials are the best in the demo and his recovery is great, but I don't like his slow animations, especially obvious when using his terrible down-special. His smashes are quite slow too with the down-smash being great crowdcontrol but the slowest of the bunch. His specials are a bit crap too, with the blade doing very little damage not to mention the ability to get caught and thrown back, and the sticky bomb having a memorable timing window in which to dodge or block. Overall he's better than Pikachu and Link, but far weaker than Mario and Villager.

...Yeah I have 9 hours on this demo already :X

PS did you see they found an arrow in the Japanese game's files for the bottom right corner of the character select screen? DLC confirmed if the same arrow appears in the Western version!
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:48 pm

ThatLunaticFeline wrote:
his down-B is near useless even on a relatively tiny stage (Battlefield). It's not gonna do crap on a stage like Palutena's Temple.
That's what I thought too, until I found out that the axe he gets when the tree is up does TONS of damage.

ThatLunaticFeline wrote:
His side aerials are good, but hard to hit, and his side and down smashes are generally quite weak, at least compared to his pretty good up-smash.
I agree that his tilts are bad, but I'm pretty good at hitting with all his aerials now, but it does take practice. His down smash is awful. No doubt about it. His side is hard to hit, but does awesome knockback, and is great ledge guarder in an anti-ledgeguarding game.

ThatLunaticFeline wrote:
Overall I don't think he's quite OP near the level of Brawl Ice Climbers and Metaknight or Melee Fox, but definitely A-tier. (Of course this is just going by the demo, maybe everyone else in the game is super brilliant in comparison... except Falco. Apparently Falco got nerfed super hard and I'm sad)
He's definitly not as good as IC, MK and Fox, and watching people like JWittz and shofu stream the Japanese version makes it seem like bowser, of ALL characters, might be OP, but Villager is definetly the best for american players ATM.

ThatLunaticFeline wrote:
I'm not upset about the Pikachu down-b nerf. It now has much less knockback than before and I think that's good, cause before it was the equivalent of W+M1 in TF2 - the noob's strategy. I still think Pikachu is a weak character, second weakest in the demo after Link, but his up-B doing more damage and hitstun is a nice buff.
First of all, I have no clue what W+M1 means. Second, Pikachu, while not my best character in Brawl, is the one I have the most fun playing as besides R.O.B.  Yet in this one, he's just so... boring... and bad. And even besides his down-B, he's just, not as good. IDK exactly what though. :/ Honestly, Link is better in the demo then pikachu with links's slight buff in speed, his Up-B, his grab being faster, and other little things.

ThatLunaticFeline wrote:
Is it just me or did Mario's up-B get seriously buffed in terms of height?
Yes. Yes, it did.
ThatLunaticFeline wrote:
He can meteor smash even easier now, it seems, even if you fast-fall to get the hit. His cape is a great weapon against all the demo's projectiles and his down-aerial is devastating.
PREACH IT BROTHER

ThatLunaticFeline wrote:
I'm torn in my opinion of Megaman. He's not a terrible character as his aerials are the best in the demo and his recovery is great, but I don't like his slow animations, especially obvious when using his terrible down-special. His smashes are quite slow too with the down-smash being great crowdcontrol but the slowest of the bunch. His specials are a bit crap too, with the blade doing very little damage not to mention the ability to get caught and thrown back, and the sticky bomb having a memorable timing window in which to dodge or block. Overall he's better than Pikachu and Link, but far weaker than Mario and Villager.
I agree with all this except for one thing. His Neutral-B has a little quirk to it. If you press B, and then quickly press down, you will throw it one the ground. You van then pick it up as an Item which throws faster and does more damage. you can do it during an opposing respawn and play normally until you want to suprise your opponet and BAM! A decent projectile.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:18 am

Now I was never good as Pikachu so my opinion may be slightly misinformed, but I used to main Link in Melee before switching to Doc and Falco and I can definitely say although his aerial animations are certainly better than they were in Brawl (almost equal to L-cancelled Melee Link's) his comparatively weak recovery means his aerials are less significant than his standard neutrals, and these are terrible. Ok, they're not as pathetic as Megaman's, but at least the second worst. The animations are horrendously slow and with quick roll animations from Mario and Pikachu, as well as the new dash pivot grabs, a good player can read and counter them. This isn't even starting on his grab, the worst in the demo for sure, because even if it's useful for tether recoveries it's still horribly slow and, if missed, leaves you wide open for punishments. The new DI, Vectoring, also affects his viability because he cannot combo well at all. His specials aren't awful, but the counters from the better characters in Mario's cape and Villager's Pocket remove any good possibility for using them offensively. His smashes are also just as weak because of their long animations which leave him very open.

Pikachu, as I've said, has never been a character I've liked or played that much - I've probably played more of it in the demo than I've ever played in Brawl or Melee - but from my little experience I can argue that it's at least stronger than Link. I think that although Pikachu's hitboxes are difficult to catch (more so for me as a non-player) its aerials are very potent, and have good animations/landing lag too. The main problem with Pika is its size which compromises its ground ability, but its great smashes sort of make up for this. Quick Attack is a very powerful recovery, as well, and with the hitstun buff is a potentially useful source of escape with a little damage, similar to Fox Flash but with less knockback and quicker startup. Its downfalls in weak specials and low weight cannot be ignored and joins Megaman in a similar overall strength bracket but the better hitboxes and meteor smash of Megaman edge him above.

Mario is my favourite character in the demo, mostly because I'm a Doc main in Melee but also cause that down aerial is goddamn ridiculous! Although we won't see items in competitive play, the screw attack on Mario leads to a ~26% damage combo (which in this game is a lot) with two jumps and a down aerial, which even the new Vectoring cannot escape. The knockback on the final blow is just as destructive as it was as a special in Melee and can KO at roughly 100% near the top of the map. That's not to downplay his incredibly powerful Smashes, strong and quick as ever, as his top killing machines. His ground moves are undeniably his weakest traits alongside his down and neutral specials, but his Cape and Super Jump Punch are very useful and should the extra height gifted to Mario mirror itself on Doc this game, I'd predict at least a B-tier placement for him. As a Doc fan Mario's strength in this demo is very encouraging.

As for what I've heard from owners of the Japanese game, the main threats this meta will be Bowser, Villager, Yoshi and Robin. I'm sad about Robin's appearance as the character doesn't appeal to me at all, and I'd have enjoyed seeing a more interesting unique character take the slot like Shulk or Duck Hunt Dog. Meanwhile, I've heard that bottom slots are taken by Marth and Falco (not a surprise given the likely desire for change in tournament play high up at Nintendo) while my beloved Jiggly and Lucario are significantly stronger than their Brawl/PM incarnations. Ness's status remains to be seen but he appears to be reasonably solid, along with Fox and my potential new main Greninja. Charizard looks to be aiming for high tiers, along with Bowser Jr (who I really like the look of), and the rest I haven't seen much of. The game's preordered and I'll be collecting the moment I get out of school, and I look forward to deconstructing the rest of the characters too!
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:39 pm

Ok, I had no clue DI was removed, with the similar-seeming yet totally different vectoring replacing it. Checked it out and I like the change personally. Some people are complaning because OMG! DIFFERNCES! THE HORROR! WHY ISN'T SSB4 EXACTLY LIKE MELEE!?
Yeah.

And I can't pre-order it cause I'm broke after buying a 3DS in the first place, so sadness ensues. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:47 pm

So the full game is out! I'm sure everyone's been hard at work playing it, and I certainly have, while also thinking about analysis. 1 week of play into the game, here are my tier impressions for the characters.

The best, god-tier
Shiek
Zero Suit Samus
Greninja
Lucario

Threats, high tier
Little Mac
Rosalina and Luma
Sonic
Duck Hunt Duo
Bowser Jr.
Pac-man
Bowser
Diddy Kong
Zelda
Marth
Yoshi
Fox

Strong, upper-mid tier
Shulk
Jigglypuff
Robin
King Dedede
Dark Pit
Pit
R.O.B.
Ness
Peach
Metaknight
Villager
Wario
Captain Falcon
Lucina
Mii Gunner

Lacking but still powerful in the right hands, lower-mid tier
Link
Wii Fit Trainer
Dr. Mario
Mario
Samus
Ganon
Mr. Game & Watch
Megaman
DK
Toon Link

Weak to worthless, low tier
Charizard
Ike
Mii Swordsman
Palutena
Falco
Mii Brawler
Luigi
Kirby
Pikachu
Olimar

Time for some explaining!

Sheik

Sheik is a terror in the For Glory scene. She will remain on top of the competition for a very long while unless some bugs are discovered which make her opponents rain hell on her. She is one of the few characters which retains a speed that is comparable to Melee's pace. Her new down-special is brilliant and provides excellent cover during recovery, and her buffed up-air with the killing blow at the end of the animation is a huge weapon against up-thrown enemies. No matter what happens in the metagame, Sheik will remain a nightmare to play against.

Zero Suit Samus
Yet another name that will strike fear into player's hearts, ZSS is Sheik's main threat to the top spot in the game. What was once a decent character has been buffed insanely with new specials and improved animations and everything adds up to a very powerful character. Her new down-B is like Sheik's - a wonderful recovery tool which attacks at the same time, and doesn't leave you helpless as you can use your new up-B to recover or in some situations combo for a swift KO. Her grab is significantly weaker but this appears to be the only significant nerf, with her faster up and down smashes wrecking the competition. Look out for her.

Greninja
Here's another character who appears to move at Melee pace. Greninja's damage output on the ground is enough to lower him a couple of spots but his edgeguarding, survivability and aerials more than make up for this. His edgeguarding is second in the game only to Duck Hunt, with his neutral B being good for both on- and off-stage opponents, and his up-B has the same push power as FLUDD without the long charge up. In the air, his neutrals are devastatingly strong, and his specials allow him to evade attacks with ease while having short lag (except his down-B, that's worse than Lucario's) so he can set himself up for more damage.

Lucario
At first glance Lucario doesn't seem too much changed from Brawl. His jab combo is a little better, Force Palm is larger, and his down aerial can't be used to stall any more. The main buff to Lucario is completely indirect - the increased killzone sizes. Characters are going well over 100% before getting killed in Smash 4, and Lucario's weight and counter ability are both key in keeping him alive long. Then his new aura buff kicks in, and he's easily one of the most terrifying characters to fight offstage. Everything about Lucario is turned up to 10 when he gets over 100%, and his slightly improved speed makes him one of the strongest characters easily.

Little Mac
Opinions on Little Mac are very conflicting. Some think he's one of the best characters in the game, some believe he's almost useless. I belong to the first party. Little Mac is quick, hits very hard and has the most indispensable tool in almost any character's arsenal - the KO Punch. Even without the KO Punch he'd be pretty strong but it really pushes him over the edge - one mistake from your opponent and it's the best punishing tool in the game. On top of his INSANE jab, his brilliant f-smash and great dash attack, he has a counter. Is there any reason not to love Little Mac? Get him off stage and he's dead. But a good Mac won't get off stage.

Rosalina and Luma
While I personally can't play the character, her matchups are insane and mostly because Luma blocks 50% damage... that's crazy.

Sonic
Sonic is fast. Like SUPER fast. Everything about him now is so much improved from Brawl, and that's saying quite a bit, so his potential is increasing as rapidly as he is getting you off the stage.

Duck Hunt Duo
The edgeguarding king. DHD is the campiest character in this game, despite an overall nerf to campers, but his close-range is still very powerful. The Can is strong enough as it is without the Clay Pigeon also causing immense trouble for characters to get near - especially slow ones like Bowser and Yoshi. In addition, both the Can and the Sheriff block attacks, allowing more time for the Duo to set up even more punishment. His main weaknesses are against quicker characters which are taking up a lot of the top-tiers so far, so he can't take top spot, but he's still strong enough to keep zoning medium- and low-speed characters away.

Bowser Jr.
Bowser Jr. (and all related Koopalings) is such a joy to play that even if he wasn't so strong I'd still love him. Fortunately, his zoning, dash attack and aerials are all incredible, and make him a real pain to play against. One of the major factors in his placement in this list is his recovery - not only does he have the Koopa Kart for his horizontal momentum but his up-special doesn't actually leave him in a helpless state... HE CAN STILL ATTACK. And it hurts.

Pac-man
Fire Hydrant.

Bowser
Bowser-senpai is finally strong enough for me to consider him as a main! Praise the lord Sakurai!

Seriously though, his new aerials are brilliant. You won't get back on stage with this guy standing on it. His main problem is really his size and speed.

Diddy Kong
Another character I don't play much so I don't have the best opinion of, but his jab combo, great offstage control and recovery, bananas and infuriating side-B has won him quite a few tournaments now. He's shaping up to be one of the scariest characters this metagame... watch out.

Zelda
Another character who got a favourable eye this game after poor performances in prior games. Zelda's new stalling and killing power with her hugely buffed specials and quick jab is a blessing - Din's Fire keeping enemies at bay and Teleport now having an explosive start and finish to provide both power and mobility. Her sweetspotted aerials are also back, giving accurate players even more reason to love this character.

Marth
Another character feeling better than ever. His sword seems to come out faster and his tipper seems to do even more damage - a real strong character overall.

Yoshi
Enormous buffs to his aerials (that dair does insane damage) and better-than-ever edgeguarding with his up-B gives a good slot to everyone's favourite green dino.

Fox
A pleasant surprise and a return to Fox's Melee glory... almost. Although Fox is lacking in kill moves except his smashes and back-air now, his damage dealing is about the same as it was in Melee without Shine cancelling, but that's still saying a lot. Fox's dair and bair are now strong damage dealers with his bair being his best killing move outside his smashes, and his decent animations (despite the removal of jump-cancelling lasers) make the rest of his neutral game a real frontrunner. His speed is also very beneficial, and the ENORMOUS buff to his recovery in the Fox Illusion not leaving you helpless is more than enough to make him a top-tier beast again.

Shulk
Perhaps there's a little bias here because he's now my new main, but Shulk is a very solid character whose Monado Arts are severely underrated. His low speed, heavy weight and slow animations are completely made up for with Monado Speed, Jump and Buster respectively, and Shield is one of the best defensive specials in the game when used properly. Monado Buster is easily his best skill, building up damage extremely quickly, just to set up for a Monado Smash which in combination with the brilliant range of his smashes can be devastating. I have a VERY good For Glory record as Shulk, and it's easy to see why.

Jigglypuff
Holy crap, Rest finally kills at a decent percent, and her bair brings back the Wall of Pain which ruined the SSBM metagame for a short while. Looking forward to seeing a lot of her.

Robin
Nosferatu is all that really needs to be said. Excellent specials, great jab combo and quick, powerful smashes.

King Dedede
Gordos everywhere. Shame they can get reflected so easily, but his good dodge and powerful nair is enough to keep him high up.

Dark Pit
Although Pit (and therefore his clone Dark Pit) received a couple nerfs from Brawl, most notably to Palutena's Arrow and the ridiculous recovery, there's one new skill which makes both of them still very strong - the new side-B. On Dark Pit, the hitbox seems a little bigger, so I'll put him above Pit for now.

Pit
Same as Dark Pit.

R.O.B.
Pretty much the same as Brawl but with even better aerials and a slightly buffed standard B. Overall fun to play, not fun to play against.

Ness
Back to being a great character after a poor run in Brawl. Now, his custom specials are Lucas's, and his up-b goes through enemies for a few frames after being cast so it doesn't get instantly cancelled by enemies trying to block your recovery. It's good to have you back, even if your other specials are useless!

Peach
While nowhere near as strong as she was in Melee, she can still hold her own with her still-very-powerful aerials, and her buffed neutral-B is good too.

Metaknight
Nerfed to shit, and the world is better off for it! Worse jump height, slower animations, no more endless "hiyayaya", Shuttle Loop no longer goes into a glide and his tornado has bad damage/priority. He's still a scary character with better killing options than in Brawl from his smashes and Shuttle Loop now hurts quite a bit more but does less knockback.

Villager
Grab enemy, throw enemy off stage, plant tree, water tree, cut tree onto recovering enemy, jump off, slingshot until enemy is dead, recover. Rinse and repeat. His real problem comes with his quite bad animations and situational style to his neutral B. Against a Bowser Jr. it's a nightmare... against a Marth, not so much.

Wario
Nerfed quite a bit from Brawl. While I hear there's a bug for his recovery which makes him literally overpowered, his neutral game and smashes are a little weaker than before. To compensate, his specials seem a little stronger, and his hitboxes are quite large, but overall he's just not as good as he was in Brawl. Still, a very powerful character.

Captain Falcon
It's a shame Falcon's ended up getting nerfed cause he was such a fun character to watch that every game of his was a highlight of some sort. He's still not a bad character by any means, as his dair, bair and uair are all just as useful and strong (if not better) as before while his specials remain almost entirely untouched. It's really only his glorious knee which got nerfed, but it was quite a core part of his moveset, and the killbox size increase didn't help either.

Lucina
See Marth, but with a little less damage.

Mii Gunner
No For Glory with Gunner doesn't help with my analysis, but the general consensus is that Gunner is the best of the Mii Trio with good zoning and reasonably strong KO power.

Link
Some people have said that Link's been considerably buffed this version - I disagree on terms of his still-slow animations, bad grab and below-average tilts. His specials and recovery are just as strong if not stronger, which is a pleasant surprise but nothing to make him a lot stronger than previous games.

Wii Fit Trainer
Perhaps it's because every WFT I've played against online has sucked and I'm not used to the character, but she/he doesn't feel very strong and their miniscule hitboxes don't lend the character any favours. Pulling off a Deep Breathing mid-battle and charging a Sun Salutation is also difficult to find the place for with relatively weak spacing. The usefulness of these skills, though, is quite influential and I expect that as I learn the character more I'll rank them higher, but right now they don't feel strong enough to warrant higher spots.

Dr. Mario
While I have to regrettably place him lower than I want, this is still an excellent slot for a powerful character and I can see him occasionally making a big difference in some games. He's better than Mario for all the same reasons he is in Melee - while he can't cape stall, his down-B is more powerful, his fair is a great killing move (better than the new Meteor Smash mechanics allow Mario's to be) and his bair is one very underrated edgeguarding move. The only thing which Mario gets better is the dair, but Doc has it as his down-special in place of FLUDD, so not bad at all.

Mario
See Dr. Mario.

Samus
This Samus feels even slower than Melee Samus, albeit with better smashes. I don't think that anything they do with Samus in future games will thrust her into top tiers as the concept seems weak unless they increased her weight, but at least her zoning is quite good.

Ganon
Another character getting a lot of smack for his weaknesses when he still has a lot of strengths, especially in his custom moves. Flame Choke is still the most awesome-looking special in the game, his aerials are still strong, and that clip of the Ganon smashing the enemy off an edge-steal is awesome.

Just try not to look at his face too much during the winner's screen. It's weird.

Mr. Game & Watch
I liked G&W in Brawl and Melee for his uniqueness, but nothing about him seems to work in 4 aside from his customizable specials and even they don't seem to be too strong. The very few buffs he received (the turtle and the flag) aren't horrible but they aren't enough.

Megaman
Great aerials, decent smashes, bad tilts, bad specials. Not much more to be said except his light weight sucks for getting blasted early. In the right hands, he's still not terrible, but I don't see him working out too well in most matchups.

Donkey Kong
Has Donkey Kong ever been amazing? I can see this iteration working slightly better than past ones, but DK still needs a lot of work to beat a lot of the stronger characters in the game. He's getting too old!

Toon Link
Same as Link, but lighter weight and he doesn't get some of those nice neutrals. Not enough change to make him a massive threat.

Charizard
I want to love you... but hurting yourself when you use a special? That brings back bad memories, man.... bad memories.

Ike
I didn't even think Ike was that special in Brawl, so it didn't surprise me that he was turning up on a lot of people's worst character lists this game. He's waaay too slow, waaay too heavy and his specials are waaay too bad. He does have some use in 100-man smash, but that's about it.

Mii Swordsman
Slow, slow, slow. Everything about this character is just plain ugh... but at least it's not Brawler.

Palutena
What happened? Palutena is a goddess, she's technically more powerful than any other character in the game (discounting that one character who some people will know). But sadly her animations are incredibly slow, her launch power is bad and her specials are extraordinarily weak, even given their immense diversity. (I'm secretly glad Palutena isn't strong, I was against her inclusion in the first place)

Falco
Falco is bad. I'm so sad. He used to be rad! Now he's no lad. That makes me mad.

Mii Brawler
Wannabe Little Mac, minus everything that makes Little Mac good.

Luigi
Twang. No recovery for yooou

Kirby
This nerf seems really unfair, cause Hungrybox played an excellent Kirby at the Smash Invitational, but there is nothing which makes Kirby that amazing in 1v1, especially with matchups almost as terrible-looking as Melee's. And when they thought the Hammer was being buffed by gaining a charge ability, they were very wrong.

Pikachu
Maybe it's because I hate playing Pikachu. Maybe it's because every Pikachu I've played against (and that's very few) has been bad. Maybe it's because Pikachu's main tools of destruction have been nerfed completely. Maybe it's because almost every character has a decent way to ignore almost every one of Pikachu's low-priority moves. Maybe it's because Pikachu SUCKS.

Olimar
Oh god, oh god no. Just reducing the amount of Pikmin he has would be enough of a nerf to Olimar, or just making the order fixed! You don't need to throw them both in at once and remove almost all viability for this character in one big blow. C'mon, Sakurai/Namco, you're better than this. Olimar is easily the worst character in the game, and I'm sure a lot of people will agree.

Thus concludes my preliminary analysis. Later into the game's life I'll do follow-ups on the tier lists and how they've turned out according to expectations like this, and what we were seeing right/wrong and what that means for the future. Thanks for reading though, and I look forward to your opinions on my list!


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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:30 am

Why the hell not, i've been playing it pretty much nonstop too.

I'm just gonna copy and paste your list because i'm too lazy to tier them again myself

Sheik

agree with most you said, she's definately one of if not the best in the game

Zero Suit Samus

definately good but not top tier material imo. why? uhhh

she does have SOME issues with killmoves, her downspecial is predictable and her upspecial is hard to hit. her backair is pretty quick and her fsmash is loads better

Greninja

no opinion, but there are a lot of for glory greninja's that are just awful

Duck Hunt Duo

bastard.

I agree he's definately really good.

Fox

mid tier at best, mediocre through and through

Little Mac

trash. once he's off the side there's no coming back against over half the cast. plus there's a ton of counters in this game which hit him way harder than everyone else

Lucario

top tier, hits ridiculously hard and everyone lives longer so he's stronger for longer

Pac-man

people say he's good but I can't play him or and haven't seen anyone play him well at all.

Bowser

he's got a lot of fast attacks now, he's pretty solid

Zelda

as someone who's played zelda since melee, i'm severely disappointed that she's still awful. I guess she does have kill power that other people have issues with and the hitting twice on farore's wind is a really nice change. There's just too many better alternatives

Villager

i don't know what the fuck

Bowser Jr.

I think he's really really good from the few times i've played him. His recovery is kinda ehhhh though.

Marth

slower, but still hits super hard

Yoshi

insanely good, you said he was slow in someone else's analysis; are you crazy, have you even played him? He's insanely fast on the ground and in the air, and all his attacks are much much faster than in past installments. I think he's at least high tier

Rosalina and Luma

cant play her, probably never will, but she's definately very good

Shulk

I think he's godawful, and the whole stance change is an overatted gimmick. Slow if not in speed or jump form, probably the worst recovery in the game other than little mac.

Jigglypuff

she looks pretty solid for sure

Robin

i'd put s/he in high tier, ridiculously powerful smashes with the levin sword, and the fire and thunder magic is really strong. Nosferatu not so much.

Dark Pit

Don't think the pit's are very good here sadly.

Pit
Same as Dark Pit.

R.O.B.

still haven't played as him, played him maybe 5 times in brawl. Why is he back instead of Wolf again? Sad(((

Ness

I think he's ok. Really light though.

Peach

apparently she's strong but I just don't see it.

Metaknight

not good, not bad. I could never play him when he was broken anyway, lol.

Dr. Mario

I actually think the Mario's are pretty much equal and up to personal preference.

Mario
See Dr. Mario.

Wario
I think he's pretty horrible, but he's always been one of my worst characters.

King Dedede

no chaingrabbing for you!

Captain Falcon

I think he's still pretty strong. Not Melee strong, but still strong.

Lucina

I think she's better than Marth, she doesn't really suffer than much from the power loss.

Mii Gunner

fuck mii's

Falco

the smack is deserved, what did they do to you Sad

Sonic

one of the strongest characters in the game. still super fast and actually has some pretty good kill moves at lower%'s.

Ganon

totally agree on the face

he's not the worst anymore!

Megaman

low tier novelty character

Charizard

haven't really seen him or played him too much tbh

Diddy Kong

banana peels suck now, have one less of them

Donkey Kong

good tilts and throws that's about it

Link

his specials are even better and he's definately better than his brawl self but he's nothing special.

Toon Link

haven't seen or played him yet.

Wii Fit Trainer


Pretty strong, high tier taunts.

Samus

I actually think samus is pretty good! aerials are a lot better, and smashes are miles better. Grab is still bad though.

Ike

exact same but somehow worse than he was in brawl. RIP.

Mr. Game & Watch

He looks average at best.

Olimar

ded character worst in the game

Mii Swordsman

mii whyyy

Palutena

super slow attacks, some of her customs are pretty good though!

Mii Brawler

miiiiis

Luigi

hilariously bad

Kirby

average at best

Pikachu

all his moves have different launch trajectories its weird, definately for the worse though.


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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:09 am

I do agree with a few of your points especially about Lucario and Fox. I've won every game I've played as Lucario on For Glory and the loss of a few kill options like upthrow-upair has hit Fox quite hard. I am pretty sad Wolf isn't back, but Fox gets all of Wolf's specials as customs which is something... still no epic f-tilt though.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U discussion.   Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:22 am

So it's been a week, how has everybody's time with the game been so far? I'm at a 70% For Glory winrate over 300 games which makes me very happy indeed, especially against those bloody annoying Little Mac gimpers.

So now cause I'm bored and everyone I want to talk to is doing something, I'll write down what I'm really liking/disliking about the game so far.

+60fps is beautiful. Literally stunning on a console like the 3DS which doesn't have the best track record for framerate (coughpokemoncough).
+There's only really one or two massively imbalanced characters, and in the right hands everyone is a threat. Except maybe Falco. Poor Falco.
+I'm one of the minority that loves Smash Run. I don't play it all the time cause its ending is rather underwhelming and sometimes repetitive, but it's provided a lot of variety and fun.
+Achievements rule. They're not too hard (some of Brawl's) or too easy.
+The amount of collectibles is insane. Every time I get a new trophy or custom move I run to the vault/customisation to check them out, and each adds a lot to the game.
+Target Blast and Home Run are still fun and a nice little waste of time.
+All-Star's new layout is nice.
+Music selection is absolutely brilliant. Gaur Plains, With Mila's Divine Protection, Smiles and Tears, Full Steam Ahead, Bath Time Theme and others are all highlights. Hearing the Temple Theme from Zelda 2/SSBM while playing Smash Run is nostalgia central.
+Stage variety is brilliant, and there are only a couple maps I have disabled in random stage switch. Favourites have to be the Spirit Tracks stage and Gaur Plains while returning classics like Jungle Japes and Corneria are awesome.
+I couldn't be happier with a roster like this. Almost every character feels great, plays great and the variety is also brilliant, from Shulk's adapting style to DHD's violent camping and Lucario's epic comebacks.

- There's not much to do. Outside of battles with mates online and locally, the only standout modes are Classic and Smash Run, and neither is substantial enough to keep me playing for a while. Fortunately, online bridges the gap there, but I see that wearing thin quite soon too.
- Character balance isn't great enough. There are clear favourites for high tiers (Lucario) and clear favourites for low tiers (Falco). Some characters feel downright broken occasionally (Little Mac) while others are consistently and criminally underpowered (Palutena). This is more minor as it's the best balanced game of the series yet, but Falco didn't get the love he deserves.
- Two songs per stage and about 30 extra songs for Smash Run exclusively. What the fuck.
- Target Blast and Home Run are great wastes of time... for the first 5 tries.
- You can get repeats of custom moves?! Why, Sakurai?! They're hard enough to get as is!
- The circle pad is occasionally awkward to pull off smashes with.
- Streetsmash is bullshit
- Smash Run's final game often feels unfair
- The items in this game are ridiculously broken. The Dragoon was cool in Brawl, but Daybreak is too much. The S-Flag is stupid, the Gust Bellows are as overpowered as Metaknight was in Brawl, and the Beetle is impossible to see before it drags you off. The Boomerang is also incredibly annoying cause it keeps coming back, making one of your standard attacks/smashes rubbish. The fact that you can only have item spawnrate set to off/on is also bad. Why is this? Who knows!
- Certain stages have certain hazards which are certainly infuriating... yes, I'm looking at you, Dr. Wily's Castle. Mushroomy Kingdom is also back, and WHY? Literally NOBODY liked Mushroomy Kingdom in Brawl. Pac-Maze and Golden Plains' gimmicks are also annoying. I'd put Pictochat's tornado on here too, but that stage has some cool elements too.
- Although For Glory 1v1 is usually lagless, the occasional times when I do get lag are usually devastating. Meanwhile, For Fun Smash and For Glory Smash are horrendously laggy to the point of being almost unplayable. One player's bad connection can destroy a game entirely.

So that's my final opinion on the game. I'd give it an 8 out of 10 if I were taking this too seriously.

I've also revised the tier list that I made last week after a few hundred battles. The changes will be input up above in that list while I'll put a changelog here if people are interested in that stuff.

+Diddy Kong to High
+Sonic to High
+Samus to Low-Mid
+Game and Watch to Low-Mid
+Link to higher position
+Dedede to higher position
+Rosaluma to higher position
+Wii Fit Trainer to higher position
+Bowser Jr. to higher position
- Charizard to Bottom
- Falco to Bottom
- Dr. Mario/Mario to Low-Mid
- Villager to High-Mid
- Duck Hunt Duo to High
- Toon Link to lower position
- Olimar to absolute trench
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